ASUC Senate Minutes

November 10, 1964

This regular meeting of the Senate of the Associated Students of the University of California was called to order at 7:15 p.m. by ASUC President Charles Powell in 406-408 Student Union.

MEMBERS PRESENT: Misses Childs, Corbelli, Cummings, Mock; Messrs. Adams, Dekar, Goldstein, Griset, Hacker, Herrmann, Jacobs, Maxwell, Porter, Rossi, Shartsis, Tregea, Van Atta, Van Houten, Powell

MEMBERS ABSENT: Misses Hendricks, Johnson; Messrs. Hooper, Wilson

INTRODUCTIONS: The Chair introduced Dr. Kidner, from the office of the University Dean of Educational Relations, and Mario Savio.

AGENDA: The agenda was approved with one addition and several changes in the order of consideration of business. The Chair added "Appointment of Senate Committee to Make Recommendations on Campus Political Activity" under Personnel and Salaries, and moved this item up, to be considered first under this section. Under New Business, "Elections Results" were placed as the first item of consideration. Mr. Dekar requested that the item entitled "Open Letter to the Study Committee" be changed to "Letter." The agenda was approved as amended by the body.


The Minutes of November 4 were approved as submitted.


The Chair called on Mr. Savio, a leader of the Free Speech Movement, to present a brief statement to the Senate. He explained that Mr. Savio and Dr. Kidner would each speak for about five minutes, and there is to be no debate between them. Mr. Savio presented his views on the now-defunct study committee and on the FSM in general. He introduced an FSM proposal with the request that it be introduced at this meeting as a Senate motion.

Dr. Kidner then spoke. He explained that he was present to give information concerning the University administration's position concerning the exercise of social and political rights of the students both on campus and off campus. He outlined the University's position, as he understands it. There was a lengthy question-and-answer period following Dr. Kidner's presentation.

The Chair interrupted the discussion to say that some Senate members objected to the recording of the proceedings. He explained that KPFA was taping the session for news purposes, with his permission. Dr. Kidner objected on the grounds that he knew nothing of this and he assumed that the Senate was taping the proceedings for its own purposes, not for news purposes. The Chair requested that KPFA, in good faith, not use the

tape thus far recorded and refrain from further recording. There was an objection from Mr. Hacker, who asserted that Senate meetings are open, unless there is a three-fourths vote of the body to go into closed session, which can be done only under Personnel and Salaries. The Chair maintained that out of courtesy to Dr. Kidner and other members who objected, that the tape should not be used. He then called for a vote on his ruling that the tape recorder be removed from the room and that the tape thus far taken not be used. Mr. Adams suggested that the body permit the continued taping of the meeting but that the tape be kept in abeyance and that the Senate possibly purchase it. This would not be for news purposes. Mr. Jacobs said he believes it is unlawful to tape someone's voice for news purposes without that person's permission.

There was an affirmative vote on the Chair's ruling that KPFA refrain from taping the remainder of the meeting. Mr. Kidner, before leaving, again stated his strong objections to the tape recording of this session. He said he was not informed that his voice was being recorded for purposes of public distribution and that he looked upon this act of recording for a commercial radio station without his prior permission as a violation of his personal rights. He added that he feels it is incumbent upon the Senate to see that this recording is not used for public distribution.

Before concluding the President's Report, the Chair read a statement for publication in the Daily Cal and the Stanford Daily, issued jointly by himself and the President of the ASSU; this was in regard to Big Game Week pranks.


Mr. Goldstein reported that at the November 12 meeting of Finance Committee, a full quorum was present and recommended the following appropriations: $50 for the Card Stunts Committee for balloons for the Utah game, $340 for Publicity and Public Relations to make payment for the Annual Report, $150 for Debate to begin an annual debate with UCLA known as the Kennedy Memorial Debate, and $900 to the Debate squad for a tournament to take place at either Harvard or Hawaii.

MSC — Moved, seconded and carried by the Senate to approved the above appropriations.

Mr. Goldstein also said that Finance Committee will be reviewing budgets for the purpose of cutting them where groups are being conservative, and this money will go into the unallocated operating reserve.


Mr. Jacobs reported that NSA is going to pay its overdue dues, and therefore we will be in USNSA for another year. He also read a letter from the National Affairs Vice President expressing NSA's position on the issues under consideration by the study committee on the Berkeley campus. A statement of the USNSA on the student freedoms controversy at the University was enclosed with the letter and read by Mr. Jacobs (copy of letter and statement attached to Official Minutes of this date).


Mr. Griset objected to NSA's telling us what to do, and gave his views on what membership in NSA means. We do not belong to NSA so that they can pass judgment on us, but to get information from them and to contribute to the national student movement. Mr. Jacobs maintained that this statement is not a recommendation, but a statement of policy, based on NSA codification.

Mr. Herrmann moved to consider withdrawal from NSA and to suspend payment of our dues. Some members objected to taking motions now to this effect, desiring instead to have a restraining order to stop payment of our dutes. He then restated his motion.

MSC — Moved by Mr. Herrmann, seconded and carried to restrain any payments on the current NSA dues until future consideration by the Senate.

Mr. Griset then asked if the Senate could see any report of NSA before it is published in the Daily Californian. He then made the following motion.

MSW — Moved by Mr. Griset, seconded and withdrawn that any NSA report submitted to this campus be submitted to this body before submission to the campus.

Mr. Rossi suggested stipulating that statements from the NSA Coordinator should be cleared through the Senate, but not necessarily all statements from NSA with regard to us. Mr. Jacobs asserted that NSA's statement is an open statement and that it is not a recommendation.

Mr. Griset asked for consent to withdraw his motion. His request was granted.

MSW — Moved by Mr. Adams, seconded and later withdrawn that the present NSA report concerning the campus controversy over political action not be submitted to the Daily Californian. Mr. Goldstein reminded the body that since a Daily Californian reporter is present, and this is an open meeting, the Daily Cal can print whatever it wants.

Dr. Porter suggested that a wiser alternative to asking that the statement not be published would be to take a stand on what this body thinks of the statement—in other words, to disassociate ourselves from this statement.

Mr. Adams then requested unanimous consent to withdraw his motion, but there was objection. He then proposed withdrawal in the form of a motion, which was passed.

Mr. Jacobs' position was supported by Mr. Rossi, who objected to the criticism leveled at the NSA Coordinator in this matter. He said he thinks Mr. Jacobs handled the issue very objectively and should not be criticized for merely presenting a report.


MSC — Moved by Miss Corbelli, seconded and carried to vote immediately on the previous question.

MSP — Moved by Mr. Adams, seconded and postponed:

Although the Senate feels itself constrained from prohibiting publication of the NSA statement concerning the present campus political controversy, it censures this NSA statement as being beyond the scope of proper NSA activity and urges the NSA to confine its future activities with respect to this campus to the constitutional bounds of advice directed specifically to ASUC government.

Mr. Adams said he thinks this motion captures the sentiment expressed previously in the debate.

MSD — Moved by Mr. Herrmann to vote immediately on the previous question.

MSC — Moved by Mr. Griset to postpone Mr. Adams' motion one week.

MSC — Moved, seconded and carried to vote immediately on the question of postponement.


The meeting was recessed for 10 minutes. Discussion resumed at 9:30 p. m.


MSC — Moved by the Chair, seconded and carried to approve the following appointments to the Senate Committee to Make Recommendations on Campus Political Activity:

  • Chairman: Mr. Powell
  • Voting members: Messrs. Adams, Goldstein, Griset, Rossi
  • Non-voting members: Messrs. Hoffman, Hooper, Porter

There were requests to add other members (specifically, Mr. Jacobs and Mr. Shartsis) to the roster of this committee. Mrs. Sturgis advised the body that the Chair's recommendation can be approved or disapproved only, and a request for additional membership can be made to the Chair.

Dr. Porter urged that the members accept the recommendation of the Chair, and his motion for approval as presented was passed.

During the discussion, a question came up with regard to publication of the minutes of subcommittees, committees and boards. Mrs. Sturgis told the body that people who are not members of a committee cannot request minutes of that committee or board. They can request the minutes of the governing board (e.g., the Senate minutes) but not of the committees.


MSC — Moved by Mr. Goldstein and carried to postpone the approval of Nancy Burpee as AEB Chairman for one week, when she can be present.



MSC — Moved by Mr. Griset, seconded and carried to suspend the rules to place the second item under New Business as the next item of consideration on the agenda.

Two-thirds vote was obtained, and the body moved to discussion of Clarification of Senate Stand on Campus Political Activity.


MSC — Moved by Mr. Griset, seconded and carried:

WHEREAS: The ASUC Senate believes that a maximization of student political freedoms to advocate, solicit, and persuade on the University campus is desirable.

AND WHEREAS: The ASUC Senate realizes that increased rights of advocacy, solicitation, and persuasion on the campus in the area of partisan politics brings cause for great concern on the part of taxpayers as well as individual legislators (in the State of California), since at times these extended rights on campus may result in illegal activities off campus... illegal activities for which the University often must answer to the taxpaying public, whether it wants to or not.

AND WHEREAS: The ASUC Senate recognizes the difficulties involved in trying to reach the best possible solution to this problem which is on the one hand ideally desirable, but which is on the other hand, a practical problem complicated by the many interests vested in the University.

AND WHEREAS: The ASUC Senate in spite of these aforementioned difficulties, and in spite of the unfortunate dissolution of the Committee on Campus Political Activity, is eager to find an answer to the problem.

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED: That The ASUC Senate and its constituents readily accept the chance to work together with representatives of the Academic Senate in an effort to recommend possible solutions to the Chancellor in the area of student political activity on campus.

AND BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED: That the Senators of the ASUC Senate pledge themselves to an intensive speaking campaign in their respective living group constituencies in order to inform the student body of the problem as stated in the WHEREAS clauses, and to solicit the recommendations of members of the Association as to possible solutions to this problem.

AND BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED: That the ASUC Senate members circulate as many copies as necessary of this resolution, as well as copies of the Senate Rationale of October 13, 1964 and copies of the Senate Law and Order Motion of November 2, 1964, in order that the entire campus may understand the Senate's previous stands and its future intentions to take the lead in this controversy on campus political activity and come up with a program acceptable and desired by all.


MSD — Moved by Mr. Shartsis, seconded and defeated to strike out the last two "Resolved" clauses in the motion.

There was discussion on Mr. Shartsis' motion. Mr. Shartsis maintained that it should be a matter of personal responsibility for Senate members to go out and publicize the Senate resolutions passed previously. Mr. Adams agreed with this, but felt that the two caluses should remain in the motion. From the standpoint of public relations he thinks it would be of value to have these last two clauses.

No objections to voting immediately on Mr. Shartsis' motion. The motion was defeated.

MSC — Moved by Mr. Griset, seconded and carried to vote immediately on the main motion.


MS — Moved by Mr. Griset and seconded to adjourn the meeting.

The Chair, acknowledging that he was being extra-parliamentary because a motion for adjournment is not debatable, asked to consider election results before adjournment. The body agreed to do this, and Mr. Griset agreed to temporary withdrawal of his motion.


Mr. Ybarra gave the Elections Council report on the elections held on November 9 and 10 for Rep-at-Large. The results were as follows:

  • Gallagher 609
  • Pauley 660
  • Write-ins 12
  • Total votes cast 1281
  • Votes needed to win 642

Mr. Griset suggested waiting a week to see if an official protest has been filed. One of the candidates spoke on campus at a rally on Monday, which would be a violation of election procedures. Mr. Ybarra then explained the complications of this matter for the Student Judicial Committee.

MSP — Moved, seconded and postponed to approve the results of the November 9 and 10 elections for one week.


The following dates were approved by the Senate for the December elections

  • Filing: November 16, 17, 18, 19
  • Testing: November 23, 24, 25
  • Campaigning: November 29 - December 6
  • Primaries: December 7, 8
  • Finals: December 10, 11


Mr. Ybarra had suggested other dates for filing, but the body thought it would be better to have more filing dates. There was general discussion on which dates would be best, and the body agreed on the above. Mr. Ybarra cautioned that the Senate must give him permission to post notice of filing for only two days instead of the three required by Elections Council procedures, since without Senate suspension of the procedures, this act would be a violation of the procedures.

The body then came to a vote on the entire question, and the above dates were approved.


Mr. Griset then asked that there be a vote on his motion for adjournment, and the motion was passed. The meeting was adjourned at 10:10 p. m.

Respectfully submitted,
Virginia Furtney, Secretary

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Title: Nov. 10, 1964
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